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Von : antoinedebruxelles | Samstag, 11. Oktober 2014 um 23:11
Jones
Jones
antoinedebruxelles dit:Le boardgame je l'ai vu, ça ressemble effectivement à du Heroscape avec des sorts en plus.
Je ne me suis pas attardé plus que ça puisque ce n'était pas encore dispo à la vente, les figurines étaient moyennes de mémoire.

Ouaip, j'ai un peu peur que le standard de "qualité" des figs peintes soit inférieur à ce que l'on voit fréquemment aujourd'hui (Heroclix par exemple, dans le même genre)
Reste à voir le prix des joujoux, parce qu'au niveau système, vu sur quoi il se base, il va falloir faire exprès pour pondre du mauvais ^^
Un peu déçu tout de même que WOTC n'ait pas réutilisé son Dreamblade, pas assez grand public sans doute :/
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Jer
Jer
C'est quoi "Dreamblade" ?
Jones
Jones
Le module de recherche de Tric Trac est ton ami :)
Avec avis, photo et tout le toutim !
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Jer
Jer
J'ai vu.
Je ne connaissais pas du tout.
C'est assez curieux, cet univers fourre-tout avec des figurines qui ressemblent parfois à un cauchemar d'enfant de 5 ans.
Jones
Jones
Ouaip. A l'époque, je me suis demandé pourquoi ils n'avaient pas utilisé leur univers Magic, peut-être par choix commercial, genre volonté de créer un autre univers ou peur d'aller sur les plates bandes de leur propre JCC (c'était pas aussi tendance de réutiliser un univers sous d'autres formes à l'époque), ou problèmes juridiques divers et variés.
Dommage, j'aimais bien le jeu :)
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The_Kerf
The_Kerf
C'est marrant, parce que je viens tout juste de me choper un starter de Dreamblade, que j'avais complètement zappé à sa sortie :mrgreen:
Je vais tester ça dès réception, ça me semble plus un "jeu stratégique avec des figs" qu'un "jeu de fig sur un plateau", donc ça ne devrait pas trop nous captiver dans mon groupe de joueurs, mais qui sait ?
The_Kerf
The_Kerf
juls-m dit:Pour les spécialiste de Magic, vous pensez quoi du coffret Anthology qui va sortir avec 8 decks 'collectors" bien thématisés
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/duel-decks-anthology/

Clairement pas les meilleurs Duel Decks… En cartes vraiment jouées/jouables, tu vas pouvoir choper un excellent Demonic Tutor et 2 ou 3 planeswalkers sympas (surtout le Garruk), mais rien de démentiel a priori ?
Maintenant, dans une optique complètement casual pour jouer avec des potes qui ne connaissent pas forcément Magic, et pour avoir 8 decks à peu près équilibrés, oui, c'est une très bonne idée, et si ça sort en VF, je prends direct, car la présentation est sympa en plus.
Sur la valeur, bof, pas assez de cartes fortes selon moi, faut voir le nombre d'exemplaires pour savoir si ça peut devenir du collector...
Jonas7000
Jonas7000
Annoncé pour début août :
composants :

6 modular board pieces
4 plastic terrain pieces
3 plastic glyphs
2 temple ruins
5 painted Planeswalker mini figures
30 squad mini figures
1 20-sided die
8 combat dice
30 damage counters
60 spell cards
10 Squad stat cards
5 Planeswalker cards
Rulebook
quelques images :



100% compatibles avec les tuiles d' Heroscape ...
vidéo unboxing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQN-_En ... e=youtu.be
vidéo comparant AotP et Heroscape
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tc8L8t-bfs
vidéo review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqAz6oLJGts
enpassant
enpassant
Le plateau modulable ne risque-t-il pas de s’abîmer rapidement avec ces petits bouts qui pointent dans tous les sens ?
A moins qu'il ne soit en plastique mais alors je n'ose pas songer au prix.
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The_Kerf
The_Kerf
A priori, ce sont exactement les mêmes tuiles plastiques qu'Heroscape. A moins d'un changement de la qualité du plastique, c'est du costaud, le matériel de ma boîte de base de Heroscape est toujours dans un super état, après 10 ans de jeu (une seule tuile "eau", les plus fines, s'est fêlée après démontage de mon barbare niveau 9 (ans) qui habite chez moi...)
A voir le prix 2015 avec la licence Magic, mais je pense me prendre une boîte de base, qui viendra enrichir mon voeux Heroscape...
Jonas7000
Jonas7000
Enpassant dit:Le plateau modulable ne risque-t-il pas de s’abîmer rapidement avec ces petits bouts qui pointent dans tous les sens ?
A moins qu'il ne soit en plastique mais alors je n'ose pas songer au prix.

les plateaux modulables sont bien en carton .
manouch
manouch
Yoshy riu n'est pas là???
Ok discutons les gars! :mrgreen:
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The_Kerf
The_Kerf
JONAS7000 dit: les plateaux modulables sont bien en carton.

Ce pourrait être rédhibitoire !
A moins, donc, de se ruer sur des boîtes d'Heroscape d'occaz à pas cher.
EDIT : ah, il y a bien quelques tuiles Heroscape dans la boîte de base, pour faire un peu de relief sur ces mornes plateaux en carton, mais ça reste bien plat tout ça.
Après visionnage, je vais prendre en tous les cas, c'est complètement compatible avec Heroscape, qui est un succès auprès de mes gamins (tout comme Magic, donc CQFD :mrgreen:)
Jer
Jer
Ca se joue de 2 à 5 ?
Andromeda No Shun36
Andromeda No Shun36
Ca m'a l'air bien sympathique sur le papier, je me demande si y'a une possibilité que ça sorte en français... Magic marche toujours bien en France, non ?
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The_Kerf
The_Kerf
Mouaif, je n'espère plus grand-chose niveau VF de WoTC :cry:
The_Kerf
The_Kerf
Je m'auto-réponds ;) : VF annoncée pour le 30 octobre (sur plusieurs boutiques en ligne) !
Jonas7000
Jonas7000
Partie de Magic boardgame en live ( 08/07 20h55 ) Tom Vassel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-O7X8u8mkk
Jonas7000
Jonas7000
Article paru sur BGG


This is a notice that this is only a review of the rules and the components, and more specifically talking about the differences between this game and Heroscape. Everything I say about gameplay is at best theorycrafting. These are mainly my thoughts about the rules and if I have any issues with those. I have only played one game so far.
First I will introduce myself. I am an avid Heroscape player. I have played that game for a very long time and have everything that was ever made and several copies. I am somewhat of a hoarder of the game you could say. So when they announced this game I was very excited. I doubt I will combine the two games but since they share the same creator I was pretty sure I would love this game. I have played and do play Magic: The Gathering from time to time, but I am nowhere near as excited about the game as many others are. I have played in tournaments and do own several decks.
Rules
So this game is basically Heroscape. If you are familiar with how to play that game then are are 90% of the way there. I will not go into great detail regarding that. Here are the differences:
Instead of having you win when you destroy your opponent's army, you win when you either destroy an Opponent's Planeswalker or you reach a turn limit. The game comes with 3 scenarios (1v1, 2v2, and 3+ player variants). In a duel game (1v1), you go to 30 turns (although you move the turn marker after each player's turn). If you get to the turn limit and neither player has destroyed a Planeswalker you do partial scoring for remaining points on the battlefield based off the PPF cost (point per figure cost).
Each player will choose a Planeswalker to play. There are 5 Planeswalkers and they have 5 different colors (red, blue, green, black, white), and they correspond to Magic: The Gathering color system. They are also thematic with red being more aggressive, green ramping, black dealing with death and reanimation, blue being the jerks that just screw with everyone and ruin people's lives. If you didn't notice, I don't care much for blue. When you choose Planeswalker(P from now on), you also get their squads. Each P has 2 unique squads to choose from that are also aligned with the same color.
One interesting note regarding unique figures in the rulebook: The game only has unique squad figures but the rulebook mentions common squads that have their own squiggly symbol as opposed to the unique crowny symbol (seriously I have no idea what this icon is supposed to be). There are also unique and common heroes that are teased. They also say to look for the expansions in 2016. Obviously this game is supposed to be expanding, I just hope it does. Battleship Galaxies was also supposed to be expanding but that died almost immediately, which was a shame because I really liked that game (FYI I was the only Gencon champion ever because the game died that quickly, lol).
The abilities on the various army cards are very Heroscape-esque as well. Some are identical like "Flying" and "Double Attack", and the others all fit in well. They even have a Magic fell to them with stuff like "Trample" which allows you to use excess wounds on an adjacent figure and "Haste" which allows you to attack immediately upon being summoned. I think they did a real good job of making it fairly easy to understand as well as being thematic.
Another big difference is the spell deck. Each P has a deck of 12 cards. Each card is unique, with cool Magic art and different abilities. Each card also has a point cost. In the back of the rulebook there are rules for deckbuilding. Each spell deck must contain 12 cards, and the total cost of the 12 cards cannot exceed 200 points. Each card must also be of a color matching your selected P. With no expansions the deckbuilding in this game is at zero. Unless, of course, you are allowed to have multiple copies of the same card in your deck. There hasn't been any announcements that I know of regarding this issue. This will become a huge topic of debate if multiple copies are allowed though. With only 1 copy of each card, you would need to buy a whole 'nuther set for even a 2nd copy. Then you'll be treated with a ton of extraneous stuff that do you no good. What if they limit it to 4 copies? 10 copies? Unlimited? In theory you could need 12 copies in order to get 12 of the same spell in your deck. Now whether or not that would be smart is up for debate, but I talk about a particular combo that seems very nasty including a simple 10 cost event here: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1399405 ... limit-q....
I really hope that gets figured out. I'm fine with having various tournament formats, that's fun and it keeps things interesting. I just hope that most of the default tournaments and playing is kept to a minimum or else there will be no cessation of complaints I'm sure.
The spell deck does seem really cool though. A lot of them just have to do with boosting units with "Enchantment" spell cards that you place on a squad/Planeswalker's army card that boost power or toughness or move or some other kind of ability. There are others that a placed face down on your army card and don't flip until something happens (usually when you are attacked). The cursed blue enchantments do stuff like that with counterspells. Others come in the form of "Sorcery" spell cards that allow you to do something real quick like deal 1 damage to an adjacent creature. You start out with a hand of 3 and you draw one each turn.
I think they will add a lot to the game. There is a ton of strategy and combo-possibilities from these cards. There will be many-a battle report bragging about the 1 turn kill or play that wiped out the whole board. Things like that seem to have more meaning when there are miniatures to remove, rather than just cards. And with the life point value of the Planeswalkers being rather low at either 6 or 7, the games will most likely be pretty short.
As an end note you can only play spell cards before Action 3 and after Action 4 (which I will get to later). You can only play 3 per turn and you cannot play during your opponent's turn. This all makes sense and seems to work well.
On your turn you you follow these actions in order:
Action 1: Draw a spell card
Action 2: Choose an army card:
Action 3: Move one or more figures on your army card
Action 4: Attack with one or more figures on your army card (optional)
Action 5: Move the turn marker on the turn track to the next number.
So you choose an army card to activate rather than something with Order Markers. I think this system works. You still have to plan ahead since you can only summon creatures and not attack with them (barring special spell cards and abilities). It fits with the Magic theme with the "summoning sickness" well enough.
Actions 3 and 4 take up most of the rulebook and it looks like a copy/paste from a Heroscape rulebook. Yay! My friends who play Heroscape will find this really easy to get into.
In action 5 you simple advance the turn marker. Keep in mind this is different than Heroscape scenarios in that they used a round marker, while this is a turn marker. The big difference is that this game moves after every single turn. Just FYI.
The game does have a lot of variety, and that needs to be mentioned. You get 5 full armies in the base set with minis. That is impressive. Although you can't army build or deck build, you still get a lot of army choices, and that's cool.
One last thing I wanted to mention was the pasted on feel of this game when it comes to the rulebook. It really does feel like they copy/pasted Heroscape rules, and then someone just edited in some extra rules. This wouldn't be an issue except for the new rules not really getting enough depth. I was hoping that coming from a Magic background meant that the rulebook would be swept over trying to be clear. There are already several threads (one giant one mine) asking questions about the game where the rulebook doesn't get into or flat out has errors (I believe). I hope they address these questions quickly but it would have been nice to fix them in the rulebook to begin with, or at least make things more clear. I find it hard these questions weren't brought up before and if they weren't then I would seriously doubt the efficacy of WotC playtesting team.
Components
You get 30 unpainted squad figures. The sculpts are pretty decent. They are also all unique! Some of them are amazing (Leyline Phantoms), and some are rather bland (Rhox Veterans). But they are all decent enough, especially regarding the price point of $30. They are all the same color as their Planeswalker's color, so they stand out easily enough. A difference between Heroscape is that these figures are not attached separately in the same way: In Heroscape each figure had studs on their feet that were placed in a hard base. This game the figures and bases all seem to be one mold. They might be glued on but it's hard to tell. The plastic is fairly firm but not brittle. I don't expect they will break with any kind of ease. They can be a bit wobbly. Most of the bases in this game don't sit perfectly on a flat surface. They are all playable and it's not a big deal (and honestly you could probably mold the into play by dipping the figure in hot water), but it is a difference.
The 5 Planeswalkers you get are all painted. It's a good thing so they stand out because they could easily blend in with the squads. They all look very good and very similar to Heroscape figure paint jobs. They don't feel very epic since they are all humanoids but that's a Magic thing. You don't quite feel like an epic commander in the same way you COULD with Heroscape because of the giant dragons and such.
I hope this game expands and gets some more big creatures and heroes because just looking at this game when compared to Heroscape, it feels like it's missing something. With the first Heroscape Master set, which I know no other game could possibly compare with it's ridiculous price and component list, but you at least had a bunch of figures and some cool variety in size of the figures. You had a giant dragon and a huge Trex running around! It made for a very dynamic look that instantly drew people around the table. This game doesn't have that. Which brings me to my next point:
Heroscape had their awesome terrain. Some people bought the game simply because of it. Whether you just liked to build stuff or you used it for other mini games, or even if you actually used it to play Heroscape, the terrain was incredible. This game definitely will let you down in that regard. I mean it's fine, this game isn't trying to go that route. It's trying to be easily set up and played quickly, so it really succeeds in that manner. If you just want to set up and play Heroscape it's not gonna happen nearly as easily. So I don't think it's really a bad thing.
The map looks decent enough. There 6 cardboard terrain boards that can be organized in a variety of ways to make different maps so that's cool. They have a weird jigsaw way of connecting, but I haven't had too much trouble. I hope they will last. They are made of decent stock but dropping them and repeated play could warp the edges. Mine were a little dented from the box already. They definitely won't stand the test of time like Heroscape terrain. You will also have to remember the water rules since it is just printed rather than being in 3d. In Heroscape it was obvious you were lower in water, but not in this.
The 2 ruins are each just made out of 2 card cutouts slid into each other. They feel fairly cheap and don't sit perfectly on the terrain. The rulebook talks about how you cannot enter a space if your base doesn't fit. It's possible if/when these terrain pieces get bent that you will have to fudge that rule. It wasn't a big deal while playing but it could be an issue down the line. I think it's at least clear where the terrain is SUPPOSED to prevent a figure from entering.
You also get 2 3-hex sand tiles and 2 1-hex sand tiles. These are Heroscape tiles painted in a blank sand color. Not as much detail as Heroscape terrain in terms of paint job but they are made of the same stuff. You don't get very much and it is basically there to give the maps some height.
You also get 4 glyphs which act the same as glyphs in Heroscape. They are decent enough and they even added a new one that when landed upon you get to draw a spell card.
You get 30 damage markers which remind me of the energy cubes from King of Tokyo only red and a little smaller. I had no trouble having enough in the game that I played (although my cats were VERY interested in batting them around).
You also get 10 dice in the game. Fantasy Flight please take notice! A mini game can keep their costs low AND have enough dice to play the game. In fact this game gives you more dice than you need on any single roll (I think). Theorycrafters might be able to come up with a scenario where you need more than 10. But it feels like enough. The dice don't have the color that the Heroscape ones do but they are made well. They aren't the cheap kind of dice so I doubt I will replace them. But you could replace them if you wanted to as the sides are essentially the same, even though they changed from skulls to cross weapons.
You also get a turn marker although I almost threw it away. It looked like a random cutout piece from the card punchout but I threw it in the box just because. Luckily I did I guess.
So after that novel, here are some quick bullet points about the game in my opinion:
Positives
1. Game Length - This game is very easy to set up and play. Much faster than Heroscape, especially with the elimination rules regarding a Planeswalker.
2. Spell Deck - This adds just enough to the Heroscape core rules to make it different, and not so much that it bogs the game down or makes it too confusing. It adds customization possibilities as well as strategy options that weren't present in Heroscape.
3. Summoning - This also adds more strategy to the game that works well IMO. I really like how it fits with the Magic theme with summoning sickness. Having to plan ahead in a turn requires thinking and planning, just like Order Markers in Heroscape, but it's different.
4. The Components - For all my griping about the components they are still very decent. You get 5 very nicely painted Planeswalkers and 30 squad figures and everything is a different sculpt! Very nice dice and a board that looks great even though it's not as good as Heroscape terrain.
5. Theme - I think they captured the Magic theme very well. From using the same art as Magic cards to the thematically translated abilities, it feels like a Magic game with minis, which is great.
Negatives
1. Small Print - The icons are microscopic on the army cards. I don't know why there is various important information that is so darn small on the cards. The PPF costs are small, the unique/common icons are small. Everything requires a magnifying glass (and I'm only 30 years old!).
2. Components - Despite the good things about them, most of the figures are still unpainted. Instead of nice hard plastic and painted terrain we can cardboard or unpainted terrain. instead of hard figure bases, we get floppy ones. Compare this to Heroscape and you will think it's a crime. I know it's nice for the Planeswalkers to stand out, but I still like prepainted. You can always paint your stuff I guess.
3. No deck building or army building at this time - This one is the biggest issue for me. The rulebook talks about future expansions and references future possibilities but they aren't here yet. It's entirely possible that this game will never get them. WotC has a bad history of continuing games that are not strictly Magic: The Gathering. I really hope this does well, and I think it will. But still. You have to fear that this game will die before it gets a much needed expansion like Battleship Galaxies.
4. The Rulebook - Although the Heroscape pasted on portions are fine, all the new stuff added is not perfectly clear and very open to interpretation. They clearly did not spend very much time refining the rulebook, and so frequent questions will be popping up in the forums until it is resolved.
Thanks for sticking with an reading through this novel. I hope someone enjoyed this. To conclude I am liking this game a lot and I have big hopes for it in the future.
enpassant
enpassant
"There 6 cardboard terrain boards that can be organized in a variety of ways to make different maps so that's cool. They have a weird jigsaw way of connecting, but I haven't had too much trouble. I hope they will last. They are made of decent stock but dropping them and repeated play could warp the edges. Mine were a little dented from the box already. They definitely won't stand the test of time like Heroscape terrain."
C'est bien ce que je craignais.
A voir si ce Heroscape va marcher aussi bien que les versions Marvel et D&D. :mrgreen:
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Nicarao
Nicarao
Pourquoi j ai cliqué dans ce topic :roll: ??
Ça m a l air fort sympathique
enpassant
enpassant
Nicarao dit:Pourquoi j ai cliqué dans ce topic :roll: ??

C'est rien, c'est un mauvais rêve, rendort-toi. :mrgreen:
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Ténébreux
Ténébreux
Mouahhhahhhhha!
Le matériel est totalement pourri avec des figurines de bien piètre qualité. C'est vraiment pas à la hauteur de la license je trouve. Et puis héroscape, mince, ça date sacrément!!
Magic the gathering est à bout de souffle, mais on lui en veut pas car il a eu une durée d'existence remarquable.
matinciel
matinciel
D'après les infos que j'ai (non validées) la croissance de magic est à deux chiffres aux US.
sgtgorilla
sgtgorilla
The_Kerf dit:
...
A moins, donc, de se ruer sur des boîtes d'Heroscape d'occaz à pas cher.
EDIT : ah, il y a bien quelques tuiles Heroscape dans la boîte de base, pour faire un peu de relief sur ces mornes plateaux en carton, mais ça reste bien plat tout ça.
Après visionnage, je vais prendre en tous les cas, c'est complètement compatible avec Heroscape, qui est un succès auprès de mes gamins (tout comme Magic, donc CQFD :mrgreen:)

Effectivement comme je disais sur le sujet heroscape :
Quand tu vois les cartes d'unité le haut c'est une présentation "magic" par contre la partie basse de la carte c'est carrément Heroscape :
photos dessins du groupe de créature avec l'oeil en surbrillance.
caractéristiques (move, range etc...) présentées pareillement
logos de l'attaque et de la défense
répartition des faces du dé identique là aussi.
Je n'ai pas lu le reste mais à première vue on voit du Heroscape thématisé à la sauce Magic au lieu de Marvel...
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Jonas7000
enpassant
enpassant
Ceux qui vont penser qu'il y a tout ça dans la boîte vont t'en vouloir. :wink:
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Jonas7000
Jonas7000
:wink: Pour toute réclamation , prière de s'adresser à Hasbro !
Quelques scans des règles ainsi que des cartes :
sources => http://www.heroscapers.com/community/sh ... hp?t=51964














Jer
Jer
Ca me perturbe de retrouver les mêmes sorts que dans Magic the Gathering, mais avec des effets totalements différents.
Sinon, ça a l'air sympa.
The_Kerf
The_Kerf
Dommage, ils n'ont pas repris le design des cartes des D&D Boardgames :mrgreen:
Non, sérieux, ça rend très bien, je vais passer outre la qualité du matos et des figs, et je prends dès que ça sort en VF. Avec mes tuiles d'Heroscape, ça va être la fête !
Jonas7000
enpassant
enpassant
Pour info anecdotique le jeu est dispo en VF.
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